Is baking soda a buffer and pH adjuster?

[Thomas]

So do I! I was looking for the name of this product. All the so called two part additives effect pH and alkalinity. He states he has a balanced calcium additive. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I just wanted the name of it. I would also like to know basically ( not giving away any trade secrets ) how this works. I see no problem at all with MDP telling us about his products on the Aquacraft forum. As I understand it, this is a forum for asking questions about Aquacraft products. There are other sponsor based forums on the site as well. If I had a question for one of them then I would ask it in their forum. I think this is perfectly acceptable. These people who disagree with him toting his products here obviously have not used them. They work much better than most of the products that I personally have used. Especially the salt! I asked him once about a test kit brand and he told me privately. This is fine because it was not his product.
I would like to see a readers pole on who thinks it's acceptable or not for this information to be given only in the Aquacraft forum. You already know my vote is yes. Thanks for letting me rant. I'm very passionate when it comes to my reef. I only want the best and most reliable products.

[cUddlefish]

In a nut shell:
BUFFER + dKH Generator™
AQUA CAL™ - $9.99

Reason they are good:
Very well researched
corners not cut on ingredients to save money


It's cutting corners that has caused the baking soda "home remedy" to be so prevalent. A little about pH:

pH is the concentration of free Hydrogen ions in a solution. A low pH is a high concentraion of hydrogen ions. So acids, which give away hydrogen have a low pH. A lack of free hydrogens is a high pH or alkaline. The neutral or balanced pH is 7. Anything lower is acidic and anything higher is basic. Each number change in pH s a tenfold change from the number before it. For example, a pH of 4 has 10 times more hydrogen than a pH of 5 and 10 times more again than 6. The reason 7 is used as a neutral is because pH cannot exceed 14 or go below 0.

Hydrogen ions change the shape of molecules and proteins. If this change is too extreme, life cannot exist in it. Anything that helps pH resist change is a buffer.

More Later.....

[cUddlefish]

Here is a pasted reply I posted in another thread that I think is valid here:

Cost is driving this hobby. Tell me that there are lots of importers or wholesalers who import yellow tangs from Hawaii rather than from the cheaper Phillipenes where cous cous (cyanide) is used. OR are there lots of importers who prefer to buy from certified "net caught?"

So if the source is, by our definition, unethical, how can we expect a LFS trying to survive educate the customer? The LFS is the middle man for a flawed system driven by the bulk of the hobbyists looking for the cheapest way of doing things.

Demand for the cheapest product results in the products environment being hurt as well as the product itself. We have to be as involved as we can in educating fellow reefers. The reefing leadership touts dangerous DIY chemicals (can you say baking soda?).

[olsaltybastard]

MDP,

You stated that there are pH issues with using baking soda as an additive. It is not unusual to bake this baking soda in an oven in order to convert it into something less likely to reduce the pH in the display. I'm no chemist and I have no idea what baking it actually does, so I cannot explain this in any detail. This probably does nothing to remove any anti-caking agents but may actually remedy the pH issues that you spoke of earlier.

I have a bottle of "Buffer +dKH Generator" and the first ingredient is sodium bicarbonate (and then a few ingredients which I haven't the slightest clue as to what they are.) This stuff is hard as a rock (never had the need to use it), so I can somewhat understand what you are saying in reference to non-caking agents. It is somewhat obvious that baking soda minus the non-caking agent has a useful purpose for marine aquariums.

[DaveK]

In my opinion, it's not so much the use of baking soda as it is people going out using products completely unrelated to aquarium keeping to save a few dollars. Yes, you can throw your water way off if you use massive amounts baking soda in an attempt to regulate pH. Yes, it can cause massive algae outbreaks, but those are only side issues.

It's people that come up with some untested method to resolve a problem and with no real proof, and then think they came up with a real solution.

I remember seeing one post, on another reef forum, about how one person uses two brands of salt. He did this because brand A was high in calcium, but low in alkalinity, and brand B was low in calcium but high in alkalinity. Now on the surface, in a way, this makes sense, but they missed the point. They have no real idea why one salt reads differently, and they have no idea what else may be missing from one salt or the other, or if one salt might react with the other during the mixing stage. When you think about it, they would have been much better off finding a salt that gave reasonable readings for both components.

There are several other areas where using a non-aquarium additive could be ok. For example, for a one time calcium boost, you could use lab grade calcium chloride. I don't see a real problem here. I do see a problem where people recommend using something like calcium chloride made for ice melting for that calcium boost. The ice melting mixture isn't very pure, after all, it's just going to melt ice, so if it's 95% calcium chloride, that's fine. It's certainly not what I'd want to use on my reef.

A big part of this is that many people never seem to consider the possible cost savings against the possible loss of all your livestock. For some reason, some people think it's ok to save $2 while risking there livestock that could total hundreds or thousands of dollars. In my book, this is very foolish.

[L.Baldrey]

Mike this made for some great reading...Karma to you...

[MDPinUSA]

Long post. But it covers the development of this thread.

Baking sodium bicarbonate (baking soda, Na Co3) will turn it into sodium carbonate (Na Co3).

Sodium carbonate has a pH significantly higher than NSW. Adding sodium carbonate to a marine aquarium will drive pH up. Sodium carbonate does nothing to maintain let alone regulate pH.

Those that promote untested and unscientific methods are a few of the credentials that are essential to apply for aqua guru™ status. The internet provides an ideal platform for arm chair chemists to expound aqua-idiocy™.

Those that suggest mixing two inferior brands of marine salts in an attempt to hydrate a mystery solution that can somehow produce magical test numbers, reside on Dream Street. These are not the people to learn from.

It would be simpler and smarter to use a marine salt that mixed to the proper levels initially. Who knows, such a brand just might yield superior results?

Only at this level are we exposed to a few that expound that two wrongs make a right.

The same mentality suggests turning off aquarium lights for several days to reduce unwanted algae. This with no regard to the captive marine life subjected to this (and other) unnatural conditions. I would think that avoiding the use of items or procedure that created the troublesome algae problem initially would be smarter.

Found at this level of hobby (and some "professional") marine aquarium keepers are those that reflect a highly disproportionate number of The Great Unwashed. This segment graphically illustrates double digit IQ. I.e. the lowest mental common denominator.

AR (analytical reagent) grade calcium chloride is a superior choice for increasing the total calcium ion vs. ice melt salt. However, is cost more.

Dealers that have created and pander to a customer base that is cost oriented are not caught between a rock and a hard place. IMO, they are under a rock.

We had a LFS that was moving to a new location. They ordered our lowest priced marine salt for their new store set up. When that special promotion expired, they chose another low cost salt. Some months later I made a sales call to this shop. I saw 6 brands of marine salts "on special". IMO none of these brands were able to offer this store or their customers the best results with minimal aquarium maintenance.

I pointed to one brand that is generally agreed to be crap. The owner of the shop said with conviction that he used that brand in his store tanks. This resulted in a tremendous bloom of unwanted algae and basic chemical imbalances.

I asked why he was selling it, if he would not use it? His reply.... "If I don't sell it, someone else will." This dealer (and far to many others) simply fail. They do not care what they sell. Just sell something is a sign that might be found in their employee rest room. The victims are the consumers and the delicate, exotic and costly live stock they attempt to keep.

Traditionally customers that whine, whimper, pule, complain, cry then ferret out the lowest cost items are short lived in the marine aquarium hobby.

There are hobbyists that complain that their favorite LFS closed. Then comment that this shop sold things so cheap. These dolts have no clue as to what is required to provide adequate to superior products and service.

Part of doing business in the marine aquarium live stock industry is to inform, educate and guide your customers to success Vs. selling less than optimal items. Then selling nonessential add-on's. Sooner than later that level of customer base will evaporate. They are driven or forced out of their hobby of choice. They will spend their expendable income in other areas. Such as home electronics.

Smart dealers guide their customers to success. They do not sell questionable or known second or third rate items. They do not compete with discount or chain stores by selling the same brand items. They sell superior items and provide superior service. They understand that their success depends on our success.

Dealing in the marine aquarium business is highly specialized. A great amount of knowledge, financial resource and integrity is required.

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[ChuckG]

I actually started out on a mission to prove to myself and others that Arm & Hammer is bad news. Unfortunately, I'm more confused now than before.

I have recently acquired a Hanna C200 photometer. Awesome piece of equipment although all my regeants haven't arrived yet. Hanna on backorder? go figure......

At any rate, I set out on a mission to prove that Arm & Hammer contained an anti-caking agent.

Someone else, not myself called them personally and asked them about it. The feedback from that phone call follows:

Church & Dwight (makers of Arm & Hammer) only manufactures one grade of sodium bicarbonate at their plant in Wyoming, and it is for both food and pharmaceutical use. They do not add any anti-caking agents.

The above statement is really why I wanted to disprove it.

Here is what I did.

As of yesterday, my TDS meter started showing .02 on the water from my filtration unit and so I changed all filters/media (5 stage) and flushed several gallons of water through it. Water exiting the system was now at 0 TDS.

I rinsed a pint mason jar with RO/DI water. I filled the mason jar with freshly made RO/DI water directly from the filtering system.

I used this water to run my first test for silica using my new toy.

Result: 0 silica (as expected)

I thoroughly rinsed everything with RO/DI water and refilled the sample vial (10 ml) with identical water of the first test.

I then added .30 ml of Arm & Hammer baking soda to the vial. (two of the small scoops from an Elos test kit)

I ran the test again with my new toy and guess what?

0 silica

I was actually hoping for a number off the chart.

The only conclusion I can come up with at the moment is that if Arm & Hammer baking soda contains an anti-caking agent it isn't silica based.

MDP?

[olsaltybastard]

Chuck,

Congrats on your new meter (gotta love new toys.) I am no chemistry buff by any measure so I have no input to your questions. I'm just curious about the silicate tester. Does it test for all types of silicates (ie: sodium silicate, aluminum silicate, etc...)?? If you put silicate sand (play sand) into some water, does the meter read this?

I went to the pathology lab last night, and inquired about testing some stuff (they have some seriously high tech equipment for doing such stuff.) Unfortunately, they are busy round the clock doing important things and don't have time to test some store bought baking soda for the presence of anti-caking agents or contaminants. My intention was to do what you did, only with a $100,000 machine.

[ChuckG]

Off the top of my head - I don't know. The regeant(s) only say silica.

I'll have to ask Hanna.