I like that this thread is an open discussion and never to be closed or ended. It shows that it really has no purpose. I have read all the posts and find a few things interesting:
If this was 2 years ago all the " who knows what impact this will have " comments are just plain rubbish. I can tell you the impact nothing! It happened 2 freaking' years ago how about someone post the changes that were a result of this action? I haven’t seen one post or comment that show those facts.
All of the " I have it on good authority" posts. Ummm no you don’t because if you did it would be blasted all over here by now just to prove the value and connections you have. After the first post that I read where that type of comment was made all I could think of is I hope this person doesn’t play poker because that’s an easy bluff to read. You have your thoughts and opinion and as valuable that may be it’s just yours. Claiming "sources" doesn’t make it more credible.
All of the "it was stored in a commercial building and was cultured for profit" is really condemning but can someone tell me how much profit was made? Or again are we assuming there was profit made?
What was truly lost from this? Corals that were destined to be uprooted or destroyed? Does anyone really believe these corals were taken just to be destroyed by negligence? Do I care about corals and this hobby you betcha. But in the grand scheme I bet the members on this board alone have killed more corals in the learning process of this hobby in total then what were lost here. Yet we don’t have a "Save the reef we hate ourselves" post here condemning all of us for destroying the very fabric/foundation of this hobby.
Was there an issue? Was it 2 years ago? Yes! Other then the supposed you are now aware factor what is gained by this post? I haven’t seen any kind of action statement or results from this information to make this an attainable task. So what purpose is this never ending post serving?
It has the purpose of allowing discussion and asking questions like those you asked Phil. BTW welcome to Reef Aquarium Guide.
I did state that I have changed and I did not yet wish to share how but would at a later time. I am still appreciative of those who have come to support EB but I want to hear from him. I have been onw of his fans and could still be but I would like to hear from him unless he legally cannot reply. The save our reef we hate ourselves exists in other threads. Use the search function and dig for them.
You stated that you can tell the impact, Nothing. Is that what every reefer has stated? I am NOT a nothing and I was impacted. (sorry I used a double negative) Did you speak with the officials and hear them state that there has been no impact? Even reefers on other boards have stated otherwise. Check them out.
OT - visit the first cartoon contest thread yall. We could use some levity too.
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Ask me why you shouldn't go to Friends University!
All of the "it was stored in a commercial building and was cultured for profit" is really condemning but can someone tell me how much profit was made? Or again are we assuming there was profit made?
I don't think any profit was made. There were too many coral deaths for a profit. Nor do I think that was even a major goal. However, profit could have been made because Eric never gave any money to the people who were taking care of the corals. One thing is known, Reef Savers trieds to send the corals back to the Sanctuary and Eric tried to stop that. Why?
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QUOTE IS TAKEN FROM A RDO POST.....I didnt want to get involved in this. Steven and Charles....and many others, you were not there, your information is not accurate.....probably because you only have one side of the story. Your dates are wrong, your understanding of the "free" care that was administered to the corals is wrong, and there is still so much more that i am learning because there was a whole bunch of DISHONESTY!!! we'll just leave it at that. no, lets go a little further since you two dont seem to mind.
FYI the corals were taken care of under my expert care, and i promise, that i grow coral with the best of them. After nine to ten months of loving care, i grew tired of unfulfilled promises and shady dealings and i had to do something to support my wife and soon to be born child. Running a facility of this size is tremendously expensive and up until that point, i had not recieved ANYTHING.....except more instructions on what I was supposed to do The burden of care was then shifted solely on to Mr. Borneman for the final few months. I went to Indonesia for business but i had to return because i was OBLIGATED to do so. I cut my trip short, to come back and deal with a wicked mess that someone else left, i started dialogue with the Keys management.I shipped approx. 35 large boxes of "live" coral back to the Keys, before Borneman took me to court under a erroneous accusation that was immediately thrown out.
I didnt want to get into this, but i am NOT willing to allow two people who dont know crap from shinola come on here and state second hand information from someone who wont say it himself. It doesnt matter anyway, i got screwed, and i let this go, fair dinkum. This whole thread is tired, and just needs to fizzle into oblivion. The project is over with, the corals have been returned to their rightful owners(willingly) and all parties involved are OVER this.
Let it go.
Reef Savers Inc.
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What was truly lost from this? Corals that were destined to be uprooted or destroyed? Does anyone really believe these corals were taken just to be destroyed by negligence? Do I care about corals and this hobby you betcha. But in the grand scheme I bet the members on this board alone have killed more corals in the learning process of this hobby in total then what were lost here. Yet we don’t have a "Save the reef we hate ourselves" post here condemning all of us for destroying the very fabric/foundation of this hobby.
There were corals that were native Caribbean corals that the Navy had to store due to law before they could continue with their construction project. They had to BY LAW find someone to store any coral over a certain size and then BY LAW those corals were to be put back after the construction was over. Many of these corals found their way into Eric's possession.
Not only that, he stored them in a facility that also housed Pacific corals and possible contamination made the corals (that never should have been in his hands in the first place) unusable for re-stocking the sanctuary.
All of the " I have it on good authority" posts. Ummm no you don’t because if you did it would be blasted all over here by now just to prove the value and connections you have.
I actually have no interest in proving much of anything to you. Because it's no matter if you believe me or not when I say those things. That much will become obvious with time (hopefully).
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What was truly lost from this? Corals that were destined to be uprooted or destroyed?
Nope... corals destined for restoration.
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Was there an issue? Was it 2 years ago? Yes! Other then the supposed you are now aware factor what is gained by this post? I haven’t seen any kind of action statement or results from this information to make this an attainable task. So what purpose is this never ending post serving?
You'll see... the gears are turning, people are listening, things are happening. Just be patient.
You stated that you can tell the impact, Nothing. Is that what every reefer has stated? I am NOT a nothing and I was impacted. (sorry I used a double negative) Did you speak with the officials and hear them state that there has been no impact? Even reefers on other boards have stated otherwise. Check them out.
You're absolutely right, there was an impact... and not a good one.
Ok how was anyone impacted? What law or regulation or procedure was changed? I would like to see that before I agree anyone was impacted.
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Originally Posted by phil5613
All of the " I have it on good authority" posts. Ummm no you don’t because if you did it would be blasted all over here by now just to prove the value and connections you have.
I actually have no interest in proving much of anything to you. Because it's no matter if you believe me or not when I say those things. That much will become obvious with time (hopefully).
Its gonna rain every Thursday this Month (hopefully) there now if it rains on any Thursday I am partially right in my opinion or guess just like you may be.
As a note I havent made opinion or judgement on this issue thats why there are questions it just seems like conjecture, assumption and guesswork right now. If there is documentation of the affects and not just personal beliefs I would like to see them. As for people being personally affected how many have permits to collect that have posted?
Ok how was anyone impacted? What law or regulation or procedure was changed? I would like to see that before I agree anyone was impacted.
Is it really the case that a law/regulation needs to be changed before you'll be convinced that an impact has been made?
Laws and regulations are one thing; how they're applied, implemented and enforced is an ENTIRELY different story. And that's where the biggest impact is going to be in this case.
I like that this thread is an open discussion and never to be closed or ended. It shows that it really has no purpose.
Phil,
I believe you are wrong, rarely does a thread get closed on this board, and that was warning shot to those who come on and continually whine, bitch and complain that the thread needs closed. You see, on RAG we are not afraid of open discussion, we are not afraid of offending some thin skinned radical. We have a business plan that does not let our sponsors/advertisers pressure us with removing their support if something is going on that they do not like. Best of all, we have attorneys in the family so we will not fall prey to bullying!
Anyhow, enjoy the thread, keep and open mind, and perhaps, Eric might post on this when he gets back from his trip, at least he has hinted at it.
Ok how was anyone impacted? What law or regulation or procedure was changed? I would like to see that before I agree anyone was impacted.
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Originally Posted by phil5613
All of the " I have it on good authority" posts. Ummm no you don’t because if you did it would be blasted all over here by now just to prove the value and connections you have.
I actually have no interest in proving much of anything to you. Because it's no matter if you believe me or not when I say those things. That much will become obvious with time (hopefully).
Its gonna rain every Thursday this Month (hopefully) there now if it rains on any Thursday I am partially right in my opinion or guess just like you may be.
As a note I havent made opinion or judgement on this issue thats why there are questions it just seems like conjecture, assumption and guesswork right now. If there is documentation of the affects and not just personal beliefs I would like to see them. As for people being personally affected how many have permits to collect that have posted?
Eric, you have the floor.
Speak. Many people including myself have been waiting for this.
The never ending thread.
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