20 gallon long modification

[lilmarkho]

Hey guys i have a 20 gallon long and my 6 gallon nano is just all out of room with frags, so i decided to take the rock and such out of my 6 gallon and out of my main tanks sump as everyone tells me to. I have a coralife 150 hqi hang on the back light that i bought off ebay for 76, so i was wanting to build in a filter like a nano cube has or a bio cube, and all the other cubes.
Something like this
http://www.beansbeauty.com/personal/...ube_filter.jpg

It would be on the short side of the tank, not long ways.
I am trying to keep it cheap, and simple. I already have a pump i could use, sponges, heater, timer, and some bio max. So all i would really have to do is build it. I was also goes to use clear plexiglass and 100% silicone so you could see in there(thought it would look cool). No i do not want to buy a hang on the back or a canister. Also I am not planning on using a sand bed. Altogether i have roughly 10-12 lbs of rock that i will have available since i am taking it out of the sump, also the 6 gallon nano is stocked.

As a side note the 6 gallon will be available for sale after this for $80 plus shipping

[GJB99x]

Plexiglass needs a different adhesive to hold together properly. You can attach glass together with silicone no prob.

[chadd]

this is true, not too sure about aquariums in particular, but acylic usually uses a vulcanizer to put it together. I'm sure you could find some good cement for it but i wouldn't reccommend any of the home depot adhesives. Likewise, and perhaps someone a bit more experienced can correct me if I've wrong, but I would want to use and acylic adhesive/vulcanizer of some sort, and then seal it with silicone.
just my 2 cents for ya

[DaveK]

Generally, unless you have some very specific reason for doing so, I don't recommend trying to build the filtration system inside the tank. The problem with doing this is that you limit yourself to what you can do with the tank in the future. This hobby changes quickly, and the "state of the art" filtration system you build today can become out and out junk in a few years.

We have already been through why bioballs and such are not the way to go. There is really no point in building a filtration system to incorporate them.

I think the question that should be asked is, what is the best or recommended way to filter a 20 gal long tank?

If I were doing this, and my goal was to keep the filtration system as inexpensive as possible, I'd build a skimmer for the system and use that as the primary filtration system, along with a powerhead or two for circulation.

In addition, if you feel you will do the maintenance and clean them weekly, a sponge filter could be used. If you also felt you needed carbon filtration, that could be placed in a filter bag near the output of the skimmer.

[Tangboy]

An interesting thing to do would be a false wall across the back (short side) that would be your overflow, leave room for 2 bulkheads (as returns). Behind the falsewall have 3 bulkheads that will be attached to a sump. One for water from the tank, the other to (smaller) for returns. Water flows over false wall into chamber, maybe have a PVC tower to send water to sump, water goes through sump (fuge if you wanted to add it) and then returned to the two returns (maybe with a Y or just two pumps) that come up through the false wall via PVC under a substrate (if you were doing substrate) that run to the end of the tank and angle back toward the false wall. This would send water flow straight to the false wall. I have contemplated that as a design for my 20L at school since its just a crayfish tank and I love salt tanks

[lilmarkho]

Ok
DAVEK what different filtration things do you use, because you mention if you if i maintance a sponge then you could use it. WELL Of course i use a sponge!! U tell me to take me live rock out, bio balls, and pretty much just told me you don't use spondes or carbon???

Secondly i believe i am going to use a piece of glass instead of plexi glass as i can get it cheap. Also i was planning on that if i use 100% silicone i can always it out if i don't want it that way years from now. A little razor blade vs. silicone, I know silicone will loose.

[DaveK]

On my both 30 gal reef and my 125 gal reef, I use a large powerful skimmer, and a berlin type sump that uses a filter sock for mechanical filtration. If chemical filtration is needed I add the pad or bag of media to the sump. Both systems also have a deep sand bed.

Just about anything that acts as a mechanical filter should be cleaned weekly. You want to get the glop it collects out of the system. Remember, until you clean it, anything collected by a mechanical filter is still in the system.

In a system like this the live rock is a major component of the filtration system. There are several reasons not to put live rock in the sump. First, you spent a bundle on it, so you might as well enjoy looking at it in the tank. Second, since the flow in a sump is one way, anything in it tends to become a dirt trap. Live rock in a tank usually gets a more random flow, especially if you use a wave maker. Third, you will also find that if you have massive amounts of bioballs or live rock below the water, the media tends to become a tremendous oxygen consumer.

Bioballs or live rock used in the dry part of a wet dry system create a different problem. In this use they are very effective at converting ammonia to nitrate. Originally this was thought to be a good thing. However, it was quickly discovered that this conversion was too effective. It converts ammonia to nitrate before the rest of the filtration system had to deal with it. This resulted in very high nitrate readings.

[lilmarkho]

Ok davek you made me feel like everything i have learn, read, and seen over the years is all wrong.

First off, for the 2-3 years i have had a reef aquarium I HAVE LITERALLY ALWAYS CLEANED THE SPONGE WITH FRESH WATER EVERY WATER CHANGE.
Also i thought a deep sand bed was bad because it becomes anarobic? What about a sand bed and live rock in the sump?

Originally Posted by DaveK

This is an excellent example of how someone can take a system that was really designed for FW, and with some time and effort convert it to an excellent reef system. It's still possible to tell it's a somewhat new setup, but the rock does look good and is growing.

Keep up the good work.

Third, you will also find that if you have massive amounts of bioballs or live rock below the water, the media tends to become a tremendous oxygen consumer.

YOu have to admit you are contradicting yourself.

[DaveK]

Originally Posted by lilmarkho

Ok davek you made me feel like everything i have learn, read, and seen over the years is all wrong. ...

This could be the case. There is a lot of incorrect information about this hobby out there. This hobby changes very quickly. A person, say a LFS owner, that learned how to set up a SW system 10 or more years ago, and hasn't kept up with things would set up a system that would look rather sad by todays standards. Then they pass on this obsolete information, and people that use it have limited results.

How you clean a sponge depends upon how you use it. If it's strictly mechanical filtration, then cleaning it in FW only is fine. However, if you are using it in a quarantine tank and also expect it to provide biological filtration, then the sponge should be cleaned by rinsing it out in SW. In this case you need to preserve the bacteria.

Sandbeds can be done many different ways. I happen to use a deep sand bed, and yes there are anaerobic areas. Others use no sandbed, or a shallow sandbed and also get good results. This is more a matter of personal preference.

If you want to use a deep sandbed, or live rock outside the main tank, it is best done by constructing a refugium. In this case the refugium is fed with filtered water from the main return pump. This keeps the sandbed and live rock from becoming a dirt trap. t also allows a controlled flow of water through the refugium. This flow should be rather slow compared to the flow through the sump. You need to give the refugium time to process everything.

Lastly, I see no contradiction. I believe you are missing some of the finer points here.