curing new live rock??

[kbohip]

Thanks Dave. I think I'll go with the lesser amount of sand just to save some money. I can always add more sand later on though right? I really like the look of a deep sandbed but I guess this makes for a lot more maintenance.

Is it necessary or even a good idea to "vacuum" the sand in a saltwater tank? My LFS says you don't do this in saltwater, only in freshwater tanks. I've been reading a lot though and most books seem to indicate that you do need to clean the sand. I guess the reason why I'm confused here is that I would think that while using the siphon on the sand you'd be taking out vital bacteria.

[DaveK]

If you are using a deep sand bed you vacuum only the top 3/4 inch or so. If it's just enough sand to cover the bottom, you can vacuum all the way down.

How often you do this depends upon a lot of factors, and about all you can do is examine the sand from time to time, and if it's become a "dirt trap" vacuum it.

You'll usually find that the worst places for accumulating dirt are the corners, places of low flow, and the open area in front. You usually don't need to move LR and get under there.

Yes, the process of vacuuming the tank does remove a lot of bacteria, but this is not a problem because first you don't do the entire sandbed, just those bad areas, and second you have enough live rock in the system, 1 to 1 1/2 lbs per gallon.
You'll also discover that most LFSs are clueless when it comes to reef systems, so don't use them as your primary source of advice. It's ok to ask them, but confirm their answers. "Trust, but verify."

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by DaveK

I agree with the post Gecko made, except for the two above items.

While curing live rock in a large plastic trash can, I do not recommend you change water, this will only lengthen the process. You want that large ammonia spike and nitrite spike to get get things going. You will discard this water later anyway.

If you do cure the live rock in the main tank, you should make a 100% water change after the rock is cured. This is done to remove the nitrates created as part of the curing process.

If there is a huge amount of die off, you may wish to make a partial water change to get the smell down. Yes, during the curing process it can smell rather bad.

I don't recommend scrubbing live rock. You will scrub off a lot of what you want, including the bacteria film. Just take the rock and swish it around in the water, getting the loose stuff off. If there is a lot of loose material, like the rock looks like it's covered in cotton, you can do this in a small bucket, so you don't have all the unwanted "glop" in the main curing container.

Dave,
I must disagree with you on this one. Why would you let your ammonia and nitrate levels to spike? This will kill everything on the rock that we are so desperately trying to keep alive.

This is why it’s important to do water changes. Would you rather kill everything to rush the process or would you rather take your time do a couple of water changes and save more of the life on the rock?

As for scrubbing the rock, you want to scrape off all the stuff dying. This will greatly reduce your ammonia and nitrate levels. This in combination with the water changes will save a lot of life on the rock.

[DaveK]

The reason you allow all those levels to spike is because that's what is going to happen. It's almost impossible to avoid, because you have some much material that is going to die, like sponges growing on the rock, and other things that just can't survive in a tank.

The spike in ammonia, followed later by the spike in nitrite is because the various groups of bacteria need to populate the rock, and consume the ammonia and nitrite. It's basic to getting the nitrogen cycle going.

Making water changes, while you are curing live rock only slows the process down. You just drag out the process and make it worse on anything that might survive. It's been my experience that you actually loose more when you drag out the process.

Yes it does help to remove obvious dead and dying material, but don't scrub the rock. You'll also remove a lot of wanted stuff.

[Gecko]

This is why I suggest you scrub the rock this will greatly reduce the ammonia & nitrate spikes. As for the wanted stuff, it lies deep inside the rock.

Also the nitrifying bacteria lies deep inside the rock and wont get harmed by scrubbing. This will only remove the dead and decaying debris.

My concern would be the ammonia spike will kill everything. I guess well have to agree to disagree.

[NSC]

New question about live rock; I have a "new tank" I am going to get LR within the next ten days. Currently I have nothing in the tank outside of saltwater mixed from filtered water and substandard salt(going to get M.E.) My options on LR are this: 45lbs "cured" LR from LFS, visually verified curing in large containers with much circulation and the rocks about midway through the curing process; looked excellent, or from a store that I found on the net;45lbs uncured "premium fiji" and 25lbs of tonga for $20 more. Honestly I feel like an idiot asking the question but which way should I go? More $ for quality from a true knowledgable local with a hole in the wall mini shop with many beautiful thriving reef setups, healthy active eating livestock, witnessed I might add, or lets hope for the best don't know what your getting low priced internet shop who also has a booming business a state or two away.... very new to this, and looking for some experience to help me out, the second option seems very appealing to me as bang for the buck is important to me, as I have kids to feed as well as trying to create an appealing enviroment for livestock and for my family to enjoy, but some "cured" rock even though more expensive could speed up the end result...patience I need to have plus the added incentive of more for less seem to be getting the best of me. Any thoughts on this? Pseudo-trust vs. net-gamble?

[kbohip]

Well, I personally ended up going through the LFS and am very happy I did. The price was $300 for about 100 pounds (I weighed it) Fiji. The rocks were exactly the sizes I wanted and seemed to have quite a lot of life on them. The best part is they appear to have been fully cured as after 2 weeks I'm still seeing no ammonia spike.

[JTMAC]

looks good kb.

[NSC]

[quote=kbohip;803332]Well, I personally ended up going through the LFS and am very happy I did. The price was $300 for about 100 pounds (I weighed it) Fiji.

Unfortunately the price for 100lbs cured fiji come in at the tune of $699, so you can see the appeal of uncured fiji and uncured tonga for 70lbs for $350. With the uncured I am left with almost enough to cover the cost of my light setup and possibly an excellent learning experience curing the rock myself in a new tank. Or by spending a little more money and going with the convenience of the LFS I could start with 45llbs cured LR and start a little ahead of the game, and time the arrival of my new protein skimmer with the purchase of the cured LR. Either way I am slowly getting closer to having some life in the tank.

[depeche179]

Does anyone know how long it takes for the coraline algae (purple) to grow back? My Fiji live rock has been fully cured, but I started to notice some of the coraline algae started to turn white. When I was curing my live rock I forgot that the water I was using had no calcium in it, so I have been adding Kent Marine's Liquid Calcum, and Tech-M, for about a week. I'm keeping the Ca levels at 450ppm, and running my 50/50 light for 12 hrs on and 12 hrs off. Any help would be great!!!