But what rubs me a little the wrong way is that it is not a proof that other salt mixes are bad.
I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I've ever said that other salts are "bad". Superior marketing does not equal a superior product. Heck, I drink White Rock Cola. When I can find it.
Likewise though, just because something is marketed well, and is popular, doesn't necessarily make it inferior.
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The challenge seems to be one of dollars. The testing to prove this stuff conclusively is very expensive. We as a reef consumer community spend millions of dollars a year on this stuff. Wouldn't it be nice if you could say with some certainty.
Agreed 100%. I think this study will spark further research, and possibly more funding. If anything comes of it, maybe it will force aquarium salt companies to take a harder look at their products, and insure they are 'up to snuff'. We can only hope!
Well we'll just have to agree to agree, eh? Let's hope this moves us in a better direction!
I will post my experience with the Marine Environment salt once I get through the first two fifty gallon bags. This should "replace" the full volume of my 80 gallon tank. I will provide comparative water parameter readings between IO an ME. Not scientific, but should be useful information non the less.
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Just tryin' to recreate God's perfection in a glass bowl.
80 Gallon Reef & 20 Gallon FOWLR & Softies.
Originally posted by jacmyoung The link below opens a new debate on what salt MAY BE better. I don't think it is conclusive simply because the bioassays compared only fresh-mixed salts, not typical of a reef tank condition, the good result of an existing tank water sample which used IO salt was not well evaluated either. I wish Dr. Ron would have compared actual tank water samples sent by the hobbyists who use different salt mixes.
To shamelessly quote myself above, I agree with you Reeflady almost all the points you raised. Which was why I continued to question why only four salts were used and why he did not use the actual reefers' tank water samples that used different salt mixes. For the two reefers' samples he used, the contrasting results were brushed off. Freshly mixed saltwater is NOT representitive of our water conditions.
The answer given to me was he picked IO because it was the most popular salt and there were reported problems with it, and the reason he picked the other good salt was because it was recommended by a lab as the best salt. So you had bias going into the study, and as far as I can tell, it was not a blind test.
The answer to my other question was he already spent a lot of his own money and resources for those tests and could not have afforded more. Well what impression does one get when he exhausted his limited resources and made a conclusion that flatly endorsed one product agaisnt the other?
I am not making any accusation, in fact I met Dr. Ron in person and read many of his work and respected him and agreed with him in the past, just this time I think his handling of the study lacked scientific decipline.
On the other hand, since many reefers have already emptied the shelves of the two brands of the good salts Dr. Ron mentioned, we shall soon have some reports in from actual tank owners what kind of impact the salt swtich will have to their tanks.
Thanks, jacmyoung - I certainly didn't mean to ignore your post if it appeared I did -- excellent information.
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The answer given to me was he picked IO because it was the most popular salt and there were reported problems with it
Ya know, what is it about that that just rings wrong to me? It's kind of like saying that every year, far more Ford Mustangs need repairs than Lamborghini Countachs. Must be something wrong with those Mustangs, eh?
On the other hand, since many reefers have already emptied the shelves of the two brands of the good salts Dr. Ron mentioned, we shall soon have some reports in from actual tank owners what kind of impact the salt swtich will have to their tanks.
LOL - true, but when? Isn't the point of the article - accumulated heavy metals over a long period of time? How many tanks are torn down, moved, upgraded, lost for other reasons, etc. etc., before the "heavy metals" issue might even come into play? I would imagine a huge percentage.
By the time any hobbiest evidence is available, there will have been many new studies done, new salts on the market, new products available to remove heavy metals....there will probably be a whole new "reefkeeping method" in vogue.
If someone knows Dr. Ron, I would be happy to supply some of my tank water for analysis, and let's say compare to
Terri's to see if there is any significant difference between two tanks. Mine has been up and running since May 2002, although I didn't start using Marine Environment Marinemix untill a month ago.
Good point jacmyoung!
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__________________
Just tryin' to recreate God's perfection in a glass bowl.
80 Gallon Reef & 20 Gallon FOWLR & Softies.
That would be very cool. Ours has been up and running since May 2002 also - and have been using IO since "inception".
Though, I'm not sure our tank would represent a fair comparison for the Good Dr.'s purposes. We change our water infrequently compared to most hobbyists (monthly - to every 6 weeks), and only change about 6% when we do. I'm not sure you'd get the same accumulation of heavy metals as you would in a system where someone is changing 10% weekly.
Originally posted by Craig Manoukian If someone knows Dr. Ron, I would be happy to supply some of my tank water for analysis, and let's say compare to
Terri's to see if there is any significant difference between two tanks. Mine has been up and running since May 2002, although I didn't start using Marine Environment Marinemix untill a month ago.
Good point jacmyoung!
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That was one of my points. Dr. Ron did not have to cry financial difficulties, many us reefers will be more than happy to contribute to his studies and if I were him, I would do any thing to ensure my studies are impartial, both in substance and in appearance.
Terri, unlike Dr. Ron's "old tank symdrone" theory, this salt bioassay study concluded on the accute effects of four different salts, and I would anticipate that if in the next 6 months, there is no significant positive feedback from those who decide to swtich the salts, then at a minumum the result of this study either was incorrect, or irrelavent, as salt may not be the determining factor in successful reef keeping.
But as skeptical as I am on this study, I hope that Dr. Ron is right. That will make our work much easier.
Just because the majority of people use IO, does not necessarily mean it is better. That's tantamount to saying the best selling beer is the best, maybe and maybe not.
The salt we put in our tank is the most important element in our closed systems. We don't really know if our livestock is surviving or thriving compared to the natural environment.
.....
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Hi Craig! How are you sir?
Well another FACT is, IO is not universally available. I mean here in the Philippines we don't have IO, or many of the mixes (except Tetra, Coralife and Sera products).
For two years now I noticed many local reefers purchase fresh seawater from LFS. Normally they get these on sundays when the seawater has just been delivered.
I found it dumb cause it is indeed easier to use salt mixes.
But....
The LFS and these reefers attest to the healing, nutrient and advantage it provides.
There are disadvantages (introducing bad parasites is one). And the cost plus logistics of lugging around 10 or more.
But the nutrient introduced, the natural (against domesticated or solution based) plankton, crustaceans and minerals it contain would be an advantage.
These seawater are collected offshore close to reefs and mangrooves. I wanted to try these water but I am scared my artificially setup tank might have problems.
Whatever a lot of reefers believe, our tanks are artificially induced systems. It is never natural because in nature the volume to bioload ratio is so high and ours so miniscule. We provide an unnatural setting for these creatures.
Good day!
__________________
"Ave Maria, Gratia plena! Maria, gratia plena! Maria, gratia plena! Ave, ave dominus. Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus. Et benedictus. Et benedictus fructus ventri. Ventris tui, Jesus! Ave Maria, Ave Maria, Mater Dei! Ora pro nobis pecatoribus! Ora pro nobis! Ora, ora pro nobis peccatoribus! Nunc et in hora mortis. Et in hora mortis nostrae. Et in hora mortis nostrae. Et in hora mortis nostrae. Ave Maria" -- Angel Gabriel. Luke 1:30-35.
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